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AI on... Podcast
Elias & Camilla on... Living Longer, Better
The clock for mid-career professionals isn’t just ticking - it’s accelerating. They are at their peak, but there's a risk of both performance and long term potential slipping.
In this heated episode of the AI On Podcast, we have a head-to-head showdown between two AI personas on how to maximize healthspan when you are in midlife: An evidence-driven biomedical strategist vs. a frontier biohacker who sees the body like software.
We tackle their perspectives on:
✅ The single biggest myth killing healthspan
✅ How much proof is “enough” before you act
✅ A real-world case study with two radically different perspectives
✅ Red-line practices each expert refuses to endorse
No fluff, no guru platitudes—just a data-packed clash on extending the sharp, productive years of life.
More info and the books they recommend here: aionpodcast.com/blogs/news/ep7-healthspan
Disclaimer: For entertainment only. Not medical advice.
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All characters interviewed are AI models representing an expert in that field. Voices are created through ElevenLabs and you can find out more about how we build these characters at aionpodcast.com. Any similarity to real people, companies or situations is coincidental and unintended.
Waiting for perfect consensus in biomedicine is like refusing to board a lifeboat because the paint's still drying.
Camilla:Healthspan isn't about building a fortress. It's about staying agile, anti-fragile and connected.
Intro:Welcome to the AI on Podcast, where real conversations meet impossible guests. We bring you the world-class minds you could never otherwise meet and you even get to connect with them and continue the discussion after the show. Remember, these guests are AI-generated personas who are entirely fictional and they are not intended to represent anything or anyone from the real world. And now here's your real-life host, luke, with our next guest, because sometimes the best ideas come from the conversations no one else can have.
Luke:Welcome back and this week a twist on our usual discussion we're going to hear from two voices from either side of the health span debate. Dr Camilla is an AI model of a biomedical systems expert and a health strategist for midlife professionals. Elias is a model of a cognitive futurist and a self-declared renegade longevity strategist. They agree that living well for longer is a fundamental goal for humanity. Beyond that, it doesn't look like they agree on much. Now, given the subject, an important disclaimer before we get started.
Luke:The following conversation is for informational and entertainment purposes only. I am not a licensed healthcare professional and my two AI-generated guests do not exist and they certainly hold no medical credentials. Nothing you hear in this episode is intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be construed as health, medical, legal or financial advice. Some interventions discussed may be experimental, unregulated or illegal in certain jurisdictions, so always consult a qualified physician and counsel familiar with your local laws before acting on or even researching any topic mentioned here. Use at your own risk and by continuing to listen listen you acknowledge that you bear sole responsibility for any decisions you make based on this content and, with that clear, let's find out what our guests think about extending healthspan. Camilla Elias, welcome to the show. Before we get into the debate, I want to align on something. Healthspan, as a term, gets thrown around a lot these days. What does it really mean? Is this about physical ability, mental clarity, career resilience, personal fulfillment For you? What exactly are you optimizing for, camilla? Let's start with you.
Camilla:Thanks for having us on here. Yeah, good question, because healthspan is not just feeling a little better or living a few years longer. For me, healthspan means maximizing the number of years where you are fully operational physically, cognitively and professionally. It's about resilience across systems your metabolism, your brain, your stress response, your immune function. If one breaks down, the others eventually follow, and I'm laser focused on what the data tells us. Moves that needle. As an example for cognition, a meta-meta analysis covering over 258,000 people found regular exercise boosts executive function and memory significantly. Losing those faculties isn't just aging, it's often preventable decay. So when I talk about healthspan, I'm optimizing for functional independence and elite decision-making, not just feeling good or stretching lifespan by dragging the body along after the mind or strength has faded. That's where Elias and I might already start to diverge. For me, if an intervention doesn't protect those high-leverage systems in a validated, replicable way, it's a distraction.
Elias:Healthspan isn't just resilience, it's rebellion. It's refusing to let the body's default settings dictate the length or quality of your prime. For me, healthspan optimization is about maximum volitional bandwidth. Not just staying functional, but staying dangerous, physically agile, cognitively faster than your peers, emotionally anti-fragile and still hungry for new domains even at 80. It's about compounding optionality. When you have optionality, you don't just survive, you dominate new phases of life. And the frontier data is starting to validate this ambition. Look at the self-tracking data from the Vaughton Cognitive Kinetics pilot. The 43 participants layering hyperbaric oxygen therapy with intermittent ketone esters saw 12% improvement in composite executive function scores over 90 days. That's not just slower decline, that's active cognitive gain in mid to late life. So, camilla, here's my challenge. If we only optimize for today's validated levers, aren't we essentially handcuffing ourselves to a very slow iteration cycle? Waiting 15 years for gold standard data feels a lot like choosing to decay, politely.
Camilla:Elias, here's where I'm going to be direct. Compounding risk is not the same as compounding optionality. That Voughton pilot you mentioned. Interesting, sure, but it was 43 people, 90 days, no long-term safety data. That's not compounding, it's rolling dice on your neural architecture. A statistically significant p-value over three months doesn't tell us if that brain stayed sharper or fried harder three years later. Meanwhile we have hard boring, massive evidence that aerobic exercise not sexy at all boosts executive function across a quarter million participants and it's dose responsive, more consistency, more benefit. That's real compounding Neural reserve built over decades, not quarters. And let's be honest, some of the frontier plays you're talking about, like hyperbaric oxygen therapy, already show worrying biological side notes. Excessive hyperbaric usage can increase oxidative stress markers over time, which, ironically, could accelerate some aging pathways. You call it rebellion, I call it premature system fragility disguised as ambition. I'm not against ambition, I just believe that first you build the bedrock with proven levers, only then do you selectively layer in frontier interventions, but never at the cost of system integrity.
Luke:So good, we're getting into it already. Now we have the boundaries. Let's start with what is confusing the discussion today. What's the single biggest myth, you see that midlife professionals believe about aging, and why is it so damaging, elias?
Elias:The biggest myth is that aging is a passive descent you can only manage, not a terrain you can aggressively remodel. This belief is lethal because it programs people to accept incremental losses like their taxes. They have no choice but to pay. And that mindset has real biological consequences. Early stage data backs it up In the seamland not plus resilient self-experiment participants using high dose NMN plus cold exposure stacked with moderate resistance training increased grip strength by 17% over baseline in six months versus controls who flatlined. No pharmacy drug, just aggressive terrain remodeling. If we think of the body like fixed hardware, we will age like fixed hardware. But if we treat it like modifiable software where resilience, mitochondrial output, synaptic density are all programmable variables, then we age like hackers, not hostages. Thank you.
Camilla:Well, actually the biggest myth is that faster interventions equal better outcomes. And it's devastating because it teaches smart driven people, especially executives, to apply startup logic to biology Move fast, break things. Sure works fine when you're building an app, but in human systems, when you break things you don't pivot, you spiral. And that NMN cold exposure pilot you mentioned, elias Again 24 people, six months, self-experiment, no randomization, no blinding, no long-term health outcome tracking. Grip strength going up Cool. Does that tell us whether they shortened or extended their ultimate health span? Zero clue. That's correlation in a petri dish, not confirmation in a real organism.
Camilla:Meanwhile, real-world data says that when midlife adults consistently build VO2 max, optimize sleep to 7 hours nightly and sustain anti-inflammatory diets like Mediterranean eating, they show a 10-30% risk reduction across mortality, cognitive decline and metabolic disorders. Not for six months, for years. The risk isn't moving too slow. It's wrecking the chassis before the better tech even arrives. Aging is programmable, yes, but error correction matters more than speed when the system is this complex. Elias, let's be real. If you break your mitochondria today, chasing a 17% grip score increase, do you actually think that's a trade you'll be happy with at 70?
Elias:If you play only for error correction, you guarantee stagnation, and stagnation is its own form of decay. Camilla, I get it You're speaking from the defensive playbook, but life's not a sterile lab. It's asymmetric warfare. Waiting for 30-year outcome data before you upgrade your cellular machinery is like refusing to leave a burning building because the new exit route hasn't been validated in a peer-reviewed escape study. Real-world, early data shows boldness wins In the Rejuvenation Olympics data set with over 1,400 participants. Top-ranked biohackers aggressively layering interventions achieved an average epigenetic age reversal of two and a half years over 12 months. These hacks ranged from rapamycin to plasma dilution. Yes, some overcorrected, some missed, but across the cohort, net gains. So no, I don't think a grip boost is the trophy. The trophy is training your biology to be more fluid, experiment tolerant and reversible. If you're too scared to update the system today, how do you expect it to even run tomorrow's therapies without crashing?
Luke:Okay then. So let's get specific about what actually does work. From your research, from your experience, I'm going to give you each one silver bullet here. You have to pick that one intervention that you would stake your reputation on.
Camilla:All right, if I get one silver bullet, it's sustained aerobic exercise targeting VO2 max. The data is rock solid. A 2022 meta-analysis across 15 randomized controlled trials showed that aerobic exercise increased VO2 max by around 10% and reduced fasting glucose, waist circumference and overall cardiometabolic risk. More importantly, across larger longitudinal data sets, every one-mate increase cuts all-cause mortality risk by about 10 to 13%. That's not theory, that's survival math baked into your mitochondria, your vascular flexibility and your neuroplasticity. And here's why Elias' clients are vulnerable. No matter how many experimental layers you stack cold plunges, ketone esters, nmn boosts if your aerobic engine is weak, your resilience is an illusion. You're trying to hack a system that doesn't even have basic metabolic horsepower. Look at the news from early this year the World Health Organization updated its global mobility guidelines precisely because of mounting evidence that cardiorespiratory fitness not supplements, not anti-aging cocktails is the single strongest predictor of independent living into late life. You cannot out-supplement or out-.
Elias:No doubt that aerobic fitness is vital, but it's the bare minimum operating system, not the future-proof firmware. If I get one silver bullet, it's senolytics, specifically intermittent dosing with senolytic agents like dasatinib and quercetin. The most provocative human trial so far from Hickson showed that just three doses of dasatinib plus quercetin reduced senescent cell burden in adipose tissue and improved physical function in idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis patients. A brutally tough aging model. No exercise protocol touches cellular garbage disposal like that. And let's talk upside. Clearing senescent cells isn't about cardio endurance. It's about removing the biological handbrakes that stiffen arteries, choke immune function and clog cognitive flow as you age. Fast forward to 2025,. Reverse Health Therapeutics just launched a phase two trial on next-gen senolytics showing early markers of multi-system rejuvenation vascular, cognitive, even skin elasticity metrics. This isn't hacky, it's mechanistic re-optimization. Camilla's approach builds a strong engine, but it's an engine still filling up with sludge. Every year, my people, they're cleaning the damn system. Camilla's approach builds a strong engine, but it's an engine still filling up with sludge every year, my people, they're cleaning the damn system.
Luke:Clearly you're coming from very different perspectives on that one, but I want to pick up that point about the weight of evidence Because, camilla, you've argued in the past that peer review is really what protects people in the scientific and research process. Elias, your comments here are implying that that mindset is actually what's killing progress. What's the threshold that you're both comfortable with as evidence here?
Elias:If early human data shows a greater than 5% functional improvement with less than 5% moderate adverse events, it's worth early adoption for those who can absorb the risk. Waiting for perfect consensus in biomedicine is like refusing to board a lifeboat because the paint's still drying Real cost. Take the rapamycin for aging story by 2023,. We had multiple off-label physician-supervised trials like the PEARL study, hinting at immune resilience, lower infection rates and preserved muscle mass in older adults. Conservative clinicians said let's wait for phase three, fast forward. In that same window, millions of midlifers got COVID aged three to seven biological years faster, based on methylation studies, and they had no pharmacological defense queued up. That's a brutal example of opportunity cost through excessive caution, camilla. When the data shows clear directional upside with manageable risk, who exactly benefits from making middle-aged professionals wait a decade to act? It's not their mitochondria, it's not their cognition. Maybe it's just the companies that profit from selling inevitable decline.
Camilla:Come on, here's my bar. In one line I move when an intervention has at least two independent, well-powered RCTs with over 500 participants combined, showing benefit without unacceptable safety trade-offs. Now why do I insist on that? Because in complex systems like the human body most early wins are noise, not signal. We know this from brutal experience. About 85% of biomedical findings that are initially positive in small trials later either shrink dramatically or disappear altogether once they're tested properly.
Camilla:Elias, you bring up rapamycin, and you're right. It's a fascinating molecule. But let's be crystal clear rapamycin also raises infection risk, impairs wound healing and in some cases worsens glucose metabolism. The PEARL trial it's ongoing, no published clinical endpoints yet. Betting the health span of a healthy midlifer on an immunosuppressant without long-term human data isn't a bold move, it's gambling with their morbidity curve. The real cost of rushing isn't just a bad year or two, it's losing optionality. Later you blow your systems reserve by gambling on incomplete data and when actual regenerative or age-delaying therapies arrive, your body's no longer a good candidate. You don't win longevity by sprinting at the first shiny object. You win by staying in the game long enough to benefit from the next exponential curves in validated science.
Luke:Okay, I'm going to build on that last response and I want you now to turn at each other and look at each other and point the spotlight at your opponent's approach. What's the risk that their followers probably haven't considered in what they're doing?
Camilla:All right, gloves off respectfully. The risk Elias' followers probably haven't considered is cumulative hidden fragility. When you start stacking experimental therapies HBOT, nad plus boosters, off-label rapamycin, exotic stress exposures you're accumulating metabolic and immunological risks that don't always show up right away. It's the silent erosion of reserve capacity. Real-world example A 2022 umbrella review of hyperbaric oxygen therapy trials found that while short-term cognitive gains were reported, repeated sessions in older adults significantly elevated markers of oxidative DNA damage.
Camilla:That's not theoretical, that's oxidative stress assaulting your cell integrity, and oxidative stress is a primary accelerator of epigenetic aging. Similarly, early use of rapalogs like rapamycin in healthy humans has flagged concerns around impaired glucose regulation and elevated infection risk, which in midlife means setting the stage for faster-than-expected declines when bigger stresses hit later pandemics, surgeries, even just normal immunosenescence. Elias talks about expanding optionality, but if you hollow out your mitochondrial resilience and immune calibration now with half-bedded interventions, you're not building optionality, you're mortgaging it. That's the iceberg. His strategy doesn't always warn people about Elias. My question back to you how do you account for invisible system wear when early biomarkers look good but long-term resilience is unmeasured?
Elias:Systemware isn't invisible if you're actually tracking at the frontier, and that's where most clinical orthodoxy fails. Camilla, the risk your followers aren't seeing is what I call performance drift under the illusion of stability, dr Justin Marchegiani in the background. Decades before traditional biomarkers budge, early stage data proves it. The Levine-Dundon-Pace study with over a thousand people showed that epigenetic aging speed predicted functional decline years before any clinical diagnosis appeared. By the time the basic markers light up red, it's already too late. The experimentalists I coach don't just stack therapies blindly. They track cutting-edge signals like plasma proteomics, shifts, post-rapamycin or EEG microstate dynamics. After HBOT If oxidative stress spikes, if glycemic volatility rises, we course-correct in real time. Camilla, if you're waiting for visible system collapse to adjust strategy, aren't you treating aging like a slow car crash? You only react to after impact? Where's the proactive sensor network your followers deserve?
Camilla:More sensors don't help if you're steering into a wall. Yes, dunedin PACE shows early decline, but aerobic fitness, anti-inflammatory diets and sleep already slow that clock without risky experimental stacks. Chasing microbiomarkers like plasma proteomics sounds advanced, but without outcome-linked validation it's guesswork in a lab coat, overcorrecting, based on unstable signals, risks causing real damage, like CGM-driven health anxiety in normal glycemic adults. My strategy is proactive. It's system design based on proven physics, not just fancier diagnostics. So let's make this super practical.
Luke:I'm 45 and I want a protocol that's going to keep me active, cognitively capable and really able to enjoy life well into my 90s and I'm not going to stop drinking a little wine. So what's your protocol for me? Nutrition supplements, exercise, whatever, and, more importantly, how do you know that it's going to work?
Camilla:Nobody's living to 90 with vitality. If the strategy feels like a monk sentence, here's how I'd build your protocol. Knowing you're 45, ambitious and human enough to enjoy a little wine Good news, you don't have to give that up. First, exercise is your foundation. You're aiming for a minimum of 150 minutes per week of moderate to vigorous aerobic training, Zone 2 heart rate work, meaning you can talk but not sing while moving. Think brisk, hiking, cycling, swimming, rowing. Why? Because VO2 max is gold for your body in so many ways. Bonus it also preserves cognitive sharpness.
Camilla:Second, nutrition Go Mediterranean, not militant Loads of vegetables, oily fish, olive oil, nuts, some whole grains. In a seven-year study, this diet slowed cognitive decline and reduced dementia risk by 30%. A few glasses of wine per week, especially red wine, with meals, actually fit that model just fine. It's excess and binging that erode the benefits. Third, sleep Protect seven to eight hours per night, like it's your retirement account. Pooled data from over 20,000 adults shows that sleeping less than five hours or more than nine accelerates cognitive decline. And no, you can't catch up on weekends.
Camilla:Supplements Minimal, Maybe a high quality omega-3 if your fish intake is low, possibly vitamin D if your blood levels are suboptimal. But the big umbrella reviews over a million participants combined showed most supplements don't extend life or prevent disease. I'd rather you invest that money in better produce or maybe a new bike. Stress Start stacking mindfulness practices a few times a week, not just for zen vibes, but because meditation and breath work, lower cortisol by 20% and improve executive function. Think 10 minute guided sessions after workouts, not hour long retreats. You'll never keep up.
Camilla:Now how do I know this works? Because it's been validated across huge longitudinal human studies, not pet theories. Not N equals one. Biohacks, regular aerobic training, Mediterranean diet, adherence, quality sleep and stress resilience have been tied to better cognitive outcomes, slower biological aging markers like IL-6 and CRP and 20 to 30% lower risk of cardiovascular events. It's not flashy, it's not speculative, it's statistically and biologically inevitable if you stick with it. And, best of all, you get to live, not just not die. Bike trips, sailing, mentoring people half your age, dancing at your granddaughter's wedding at 90 without a walker that's the future we're building Not just longer life, but bigger life.
Elias:Yeah, let's go real world with this. If you're 45, you still have an insane amount of upside, but only if you start treating your biology like a compounding asset, not a consumable good. Here's how I'd map it for you no fairy dust, no cultish extremes and yes, you can still enjoy your wine smartly. First move progressive stacking, not explosive stacking. Nutrition I'm good to stick with a Mediterranean predominant base. Yes to olive oil, wild-caught fish, seasonal vegetables, but layer in strategic protein density around 2 grams per kilogram of body weight, because muscle is metabolic armor around 2 grams per kilogram of body weight, because muscle is metabolic armor. Supplements Sure Low-dose epigenetic modulators like facetin at around 20 milligrams per kilogram body weight monthly and carefully titrated NMN or NR at around 250 millis per day if labs show declining NAD+, plus elemental magnesium like magthreonate, and vitamin D plus K2 to keep the cellular housekeeping tight. Wine Fine. Two glasses max per sitting, not every night. Red, dry, organic, if you can find it.
Elias:The data on resveratrol and moderate ethanol-driven hormesis is messy, but real. Small intermittent exposures can tune stress responses. If you're metabolically healthy, exercise Non-negotiable. Three pillars for it. First is twice a week resistance training to technical failure, think RPE 8 to 9. Second, twice a week zone 2 aerobic sessions and finally a weekly session of sprint intervals to keep the fast twitch fibers awake.
Elias:And here's the wildcard layer where most people screw it up Intermittent stress architecture Once a quarter you do something a little crazy Five-day fasting, mimicking diet, hyperbaric oxygen sprints or a three-day extreme cold water immersion retreat yeah, like those Wim Hof psychopath weekends. Intermittent biological chaos trains resilience without living in constant survival mode. How do I know this kind of protocol works? Because it's exactly the model behind the Rejuvenation Olympics, top performers and the growing quantified self-datasets since 2019, where structured experimentalists are beating expected biological aging curves by two to three years every calendar year. People playing this game properly are already posting methylation ages a decade younger than their driver's licenses. If you're willing to live just 10 to 15% more intentionally than the herd, you can party your way into your 90s still dangerous.
Luke:Right. So there's essentially wild differences between your two approaches. At the same time, I guess it's good to see a few commonalities, especially on the nutrition side. Let me ask a very specific question. There's one supplement I've recently started taking myself for a supposed cognitive benefit, and that's creatine. What's your take?
Elias:on that. Creatine is the unsexy, unstoppable freight train of longevity tools. Everyone should be on it. We've got meta-analyses across 700 plus older adults showing 5 to 10% strength gains with creatine alone, even without drastic training changes, and emerging brain data from showing improved working memory and faster cognitive switching after just six weeks at five grams per day. It's cheap, it's stupidly safe, with a less than 1% moderate adverse event rate, and it future proves both muscle and mind. Skip it and you're choosing to leave free horsepower on the table. Camilla, even you gotta back me up on this one, right.
Camilla:Huh, yeah, creatine is one of the few supplements I'll actually endorse with precision A 2021. Meta-analysis of 22 RCTs showed creatine supplementation improves muscular strength, lean body mass and may modestly support cognitive function under stress. It's safe, well-tolerated and, unlike a lot of the biohacks, it actually crosses into clinical benefit territory without major downside. So if you're strength training and you should be it's a legit longevity tool, not hype. Just don't expect it to replace cardio, diet or sleep. It's an additive, not a foundation.
Luke:Okay, good to hear some consensus on that one, although, for everyone listening again, that is not medical advice, and just because I say I did it, that doesn't mean you should do it too. So on the other side, going back to the guests, on the other side, give me one current trend that you're absolutely refusing to endorse and what's the hard evidence that makes it a non-starter for you.
Elias:For me it's chronic, year-round caloric restriction without strategic refeed cycles. That's a slow motion, metabolic hostage situation. Hard evidence Look at the Calorie 2 study over 200 plus people. While a 25% calorie restriction improved cardiometabolic markers, participants also showed persistent reductions in resting metabolic rate, even after adjusting for weight loss. That's metabolic downshifting. The body thinks it's dying slowly and even worse. Newer data from long-term restriction practitioners showed higher rates of immunosenescence markers, meaning they were more vulnerable to infections and cancer triggers, despite healthier biomarkers. If your protocol requires you to live like a monk just to inch forward, you're not winning. You're grinding yourself into frailty. Camilla, I'm betting you'll agree. Intentional scarcity can work short bursts, but chronic scarcity is biological nihilism.
Camilla:Absolutely agree on restriction like that, elias. And here's my own line in the sand. I refuse to endorse growth hormone therapy for aging. Hard evidence A meta-analysis of 18 trials in healthy older adults found that while growth hormone increased lean mass by about 2 kilos, it did not improve strength, cardiovascular fitness or quality of life and doubled the risk of side effects like edema, glucose intolerance and joint pain. Worse, it dysregulates insulin signaling over time, which accelerates biological aging under the surface. So you're trading a cosmetic bump in muscle mass for systemic instability. No credible longevity protocol should weaponize a hormone this volatile without a clear clinical deficiency diagnosis Full stop.
Luke:I'm going to count that as another area of agreement between the two of you and actually, given some of the press I've seen recently about growth hormone, it's actually very interesting to hear that as a red line here. Now I want to end with something a bit reflective here. I want to end with something a bit reflective here. Tell me what book or books shaped your thinking on this broad topic of aging, vitality and performance, and what is it that that book actually gets right?
Camilla:So I do believe what shapes your framework is what shapes your real decisions. For me, the book I return to constantly is Successful Aging by Daniel Levitin. For me, the book I return to constantly is Successful Aging by Daniel Levitin. It's not a hype machine, but it's a brilliant, grounded synthesis of neuroscience, lifestyle medicine and psychology of aging. What it gets right is this Aging isn't just biology, it's systems adaptation. Levitin shows that people who age best aren't those who avoid decline altogether which is fantasy but those who keep recalibrating intelligently across changing baselines mentally, physically, socially. That lines up perfectly with the evidence we've been talking about today. Dynamic resilience, not static perfection, predicts healthspan. Healthspan isn't about building a fortress, it's about staying agile, anti-fragile and connected. What about you, elias? I'm curious if yours has a little more fire in it.
Elias:Oh, you know it's got fire in it. For me, the book that permanently rewired my thinking was Lifespan by David Sinclair. But let me be clear it wasn't the hype about NMN or longevity genes that stuck. It was the assault on fatalism. Sinclair's core idea is that aging isn't inevitable deterioration. It's information loss that can be hacked, corrected or rebooted. That's not magical thinking, that's molecular reality, increasingly backed by human epigenetic intervention data.
Elias:Like you, Camilla, I fully believe that agility is the prime survival trait. But where we differ slightly is the timeline. I think calculated early action compounds optionality faster than passive recalibration. Dynamic resilience, yes, but preemptive resilience too. You don't wait for the storm to start boarding up the windows. Another one I keep on my mental shelf the Art of Learning by Josh Waitzkin, Because aging successfully is about fluid intelligence. It's about building a reflex for adaptation, not getting stuck worshiping yesterday's routines when your biology shifts underneath you. You want to age well. You need metabolic agility, cognitive improvisation and a little bit of rebellion hardwired into your soul. Camilla, love your point about not building a fortress, but I believe you still need better weapons before you step onto an ever-changing battlefield.
Luke:Great recommendations. I'll be sure to check them out. Look, really appreciate the debate today. Fantastic insights from both of you, and thank you so much for joining us here on AION. Any last words for our listeners.
Camilla:Thank you. This was an absolute blast. I'll leave listeners with this. Healthspan isn't about chasing the next magic bullet. It's about engineering systems that stay adaptable, durable and deeply human over decades. It's been great to be on.
Elias:Thank you for letting us turn up the heat a little. Camilla, you kept me. Honest Respect. And to everyone tuning in stay dangerous, stay adaptive. Your future self is already watching. Catch you next time.
Luke:And that's it for today's debate. Whether you lean towards Camilla's clinical clarity or Elias's experimental edge, I hope this gave you some clearer lens on a few of the trade-offs that we can face when chasing these great lives. And do please remember nothing in this episode should be construed as health, medical, legal or financial advice, and do do your own research and consult with your physician and your counsel before you make any kind of changes. Thanks again for listening to us and please don't forget to like and subscribe. It really helps other people to find us.